Trump’s pardon of all people convicted of crimes related to January 6 came as no surprise to those who followed his campaign promises. But for some historians, it sends a worrying signal.
Ari Shapiro, host:
People who followed President Trump’s campaign were not surprised to see him pardon nearly all of the people convicted of crimes related to the events of January 6. For some historians, the move sends a worrying signal about the tolerance of political violence over the next four years. Odette Youssef, NPR’s domestic extremism correspondent, spoke with some of them. Hello.
Odette Youssef, by phone: Hi, Ari.
SHAPIRO: President Trump has repeatedly promised over the past four years to pardon the people who were impeached for their roles on January 6. What is the importance of him fulfilling this promise and issuing the pardon?
Youssef: In the period leading up to the amnesty, Ari, I spoke with Ruth Ben-Ghiat. She’s a historian at New York University, who studies strong leaders. In the past, she said, such amnesties were part of the authoritarian playbook.
Ruth Ben-Ghiat: Mussolini, Augusto Pinochet and others routinely pardoned people before beginning new phases of the crackdown. This frees up convicted criminals to serve in the party, to serve in the government or to be future foot soldiers.
YOUSEF: So I’m not saying, you know, here that the United States is 20th-century fascist Italy or Chile, Ari, but historians see that as a warning light. During a question-and-answer session this week, a reporter asked Trump whether Proud Boys or Oath Keepers leaders now have a place in the country’s political conversation, and his response, as he put it, was, “We’ll have to see.”
SHAPIRO: Monday’s inauguration was a peaceful transfer of power. Have you spoken to people who think concerns about political violence may be exaggerated?
Joseph: Well, you know, it was peaceful. But, you know, I didn’t talk to anyone, you know, leading up to the election that’s expected to happen on January 6th. You know, the concern about political violence is different now than it was before. You know, it’s now a more local and regular feature of everyday life in America. You know, we see these periodic surveys that show that in the last few years, the level of intimidation and threats and worse has been raised against teachers and librarians and election officials, you know.
SHAPIRO: How are organized extremist groups responding to these pardons and commutations?
YOUSEF: Well, Enrique Tarrio of the Proud Boys said today in a far-right news interview that success during this administration would be, as he put it, “revenge.” Stuart Rhodes, the former leader of the Oath Keepers, said he expected the administration to demand “revenge” for his and others’ prosecutions. Now, these two groups, you know, have changed a lot in the last four years. They are weaker. They are less centralized. But now they are seeing a strong push, and even other groups are becoming bolder. As you know, there are reports of KKK chapters dropping anti-immigrant fliers in Kentucky this week. So, there’s a lot of energy around aligning extremist groups’ agendas with the priorities of the Trump administration, perhaps nowhere more important than on immigration. We even see some of these groups expressing hope that they will be tasked with carrying out the removal operations.
SHAPIRO: That’s Odette Youssef, NPR’s domestic extremism correspondent. Thank you very much.
Youssef: Thank you.
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